Why is Power Cable Supplier Better?
Power distributor vs power conditioner vs power cable
Improve the sound is what i can do, i never had a power conditioner but what does it do compared to a quality power distributor ?
I tried typing in words on asr that could give me a few threads about the topic and recommendation, it didn't seem to me that i typed in the right words, because i didn't find many threads about the topics mostly about Power distributor vs power conditioner (Non-Snake Oil Power/Line Conditioner? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/non-snake-oil-power-line-conditioner./ )
What low budget power conditioners are there, looked at taga but looks more like a power distributor then a power conditioner
I was getting to that reading up on if a different power cable would make a difference
Monosaudio Hi End Audiophil Power Cable 1.5 m is what i use for my amp, super inexpensive and super thick cable, looks like it costs + €100 but doesn't come close to that
(i can with a discount get 2 power cables for less then €100 and they don't look at all like black standard power cables for 10-15 bucks for 1.5-2 meters)
For those in usa https://www.amazon.com/stores/Monos...ef_=ast_bln&store_ref=bl_ast_dp_brandLogo_sto
They make several power cables that makes it hard to choose wich one, if you wanna try one for your amp and want a slightly cheaper alternative to what supra makes, if you are a cheapass, you have a modest priced system or needs a f..... load of power cables, monosaudio is worth checking out
Totally screwed it up thinking i could in a traditional way, that i could connect a power amp to my integrated amp, for more power, more control,more dynamic headroom.cleaner sound,less distortion,improvements in the bass, i can'tAre you inquiring about electron energy power transfer and what is the best conditions for power transfer?
Improve the sound is what i can do, i never had a power conditioner but what does it do compared to a quality power distributor ?
I tried typing in words on asr that could give me a few threads about the topic and recommendation, it didn't seem to me that i typed in the right words, because i didn't find many threads about the topics mostly about Power distributor vs power conditioner (Non-Snake Oil Power/Line Conditioner? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/non-snake-oil-power-line-conditioner./ )
What low budget power conditioners are there, looked at taga but looks more like a power distributor then a power conditioner
I was getting to that reading up on if a different power cable would make a difference
Monosaudio Hi End Audiophil Power Cable 1.5 m is what i use for my amp, super inexpensive and super thick cable, looks like it costs + €100 but doesn't come close to that
(i can with a discount get 2 power cables for less then €100 and they don't look at all like black standard power cables for 10-15 bucks for 1.5-2 meters)
For those in usa https://www.amazon.com/stores/Monos...ef_=ast_bln&store_ref=bl_ast_dp_brandLogo_sto
They make several power cables that makes it hard to choose wich one, if you wanna try one for your amp and want a slightly cheaper alternative to what supra makes, if you are a cheapass, you have a modest priced system or needs a f..... load of power cables, monosaudio is worth checking out
Totally screwed it up thinking i could in a traditional way, that i could connect a power amp to my integrated amp, for more power, more control,more dynamic headroom.cleaner sound,less distortion,improvements in the bass, i can'tYou can't improve the sound quality of a properly engineered amplifier by using different power cables, conditioners or distribution blocks.
Improve the sound is what i can do, i never had a power conditioner but what does it do compared to a quality power distributor ?
I tried typing in words on asr that could give me a few threads about the topic and recommendation, it didn't seem to me that i typed in the right words, because i didn't find many threads about the topics mostly about Power distributor vs power conditioner (Non-Snake Oil Power/Line Conditioner? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/non-snake-oil-power-line-conditioner./ )
What low budget power conditioners are there, looked at taga but looks more like a power distributor then a power conditioner
I was getting to that reading up on if a different power cable would make a difference
Monosaudio Hi End Audiophil Power Cable 1.5 m is what i use for my amp, super inexpensive and super thick cable, looks like it costs + €100 but doesn't come close to that
(i can with a discount get 2 power cables for less then €100 and they don't look at all like black standard power cables for 10-15 bucks for 1.5-2 meters)
For those in usa https://www.amazon.com/stores/Monos...ef_=ast_bln&store_ref=bl_ast_dp_brandLogo_sto
They make several power cables that makes it hard to choose wich one, if you wanna try one for your amp and want a slightly cheaper alternative to what supra makes, if you are a cheapass, you have a modest priced system or needs a f..... load of power cables, monosaudio is worth checking out
If your integrated amp wasn't clipping in your normal use adding a power amp to it is unlikely to make it sound different since you already have enough power. A 100W amp won't sound different to a 25W amp if you are only using 20W if both are properly engineered, and most are.
Totally screwed it up thinking i could in a traditional way, that i could connect a power amp to my integrated amp, for more power, more control,more dynamic headroom.cleaner sound,less distortion,improvements in the bass, i can'tReal power conditioners, as used in industry, cost several thousand euros, and in the audio sector you pay a considerable premium.
Improve the sound is what i can do, i never had a power conditioner but what does it do compared to a quality power distributor ?
I tried typing in words on asr that could give me a few threads about the topic and recommendation, it didn't seem to me that i typed in the right words, because i didn't find many threads about the topics mostly about Power distributor vs power conditioner (Non-Snake Oil Power/Line Conditioner? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/non-snake-oil-power-line-conditioner./ )
What low budget power conditioners are there, looked at taga but looks more like a power distributor then a power conditioner
I was getting to that reading up on if a different power cable would make a difference
Monosaudio Hi End Audiophil Power Cable 1.5 m is what i use for my amp, super inexpensive and super thick cable, looks like it costs + €100 but doesn't come close to that
(i can with a discount get 2 power cables for less then €100 and they don't look at all like black standard power cables for 10-15 bucks for 1.5-2 meters)
For those in usa https://www.amazon.com/stores/Monos...ef_=ast_bln&store_ref=bl_ast_dp_brandLogo_sto
They make several power cables that makes it hard to choose wich one, if you wanna try one for your amp and want a slightly cheaper alternative to what supra makes, if you are a cheapass, you have a modest priced system or needs a f..... load of power cables, monosaudio is worth checking out
But if you don't have a problem with your power grid, which I assume 99.9% of the time, you can burn the money or send it to me, it would have exactly the same effect.
There's nothing wrong with good power cables from LAPP or SUPRA. Both are available by the meter and with high-quality plugs you get around 4 - 10 high-quality power cables for every €100. Everything else is just for looks.
For everything else you would have to post your configuration.
Totally screwed it up thinking i could in a traditional way, that i could connect a power amp to my integrated amp, for more power, more control,more dynamic headroom.cleaner sound,less distortion,improvements in the bass, i can'tDo the lights dim noticeably in the house whenever something that draws say... 1kW or more engages ?
Improve the sound is what i can do, i never had a power conditioner but what does it do compared to a quality power distributor ?
I tried typing in words on asr that could give me a few threads about the topic and recommendation, it didn't seem to me that i typed in the right words, because i didn't find many threads about the topics mostly about Power distributor vs power conditioner (Non-Snake Oil Power/Line Conditioner? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/non-snake-oil-power-line-conditioner./ )
What low budget power conditioners are there, looked at taga but looks more like a power distributor then a power conditioner
I was getting to that reading up on if a different power cable would make a difference
Monosaudio Hi End Audiophil Power Cable 1.5 m is what i use for my amp, super inexpensive and super thick cable, looks like it costs + €100 but doesn't come close to that
(i can with a discount get 2 power cables for less then €100 and they don't look at all like black standard power cables for 10-15 bucks for 1.5-2 meters)
For those in usa https://www.amazon.com/stores/Monos...ef_=ast_bln&store_ref=bl_ast_dp_brandLogo_sto
They make several power cables that makes it hard to choose wich one, if you wanna try one for your amp and want a slightly cheaper alternative to what supra makes, if you are a cheapass, you have a modest priced system or needs a f..... load of power cables, monosaudio is worth checking out
If not ... you don't need a power conditioner.
Do you hear 'clicks' or 'ticks' (from the speakers) when playing music when something in the house switches on ?
If not... you don't need additional filtering.
It is as simple as that. Audio systems simply don't draw lots of power not even when playing pretty loud. Any power conditioner is an additional resistance for the mains voltage to the transformer or SPS of any audio gear.
So if you can really hear anything, it will be reduced power of your amp or whatever you use it for.
I use quite cheap power distributors with some overvoltage protection capability in my systems. Maybe it helps if something bad happens on the AC line.
My main system has it's own power cable going to it's fuse in the house installation. That prevents spikes from motors, refridegerators and the like to dirctly enter the audio. It cured some glitch in the TV when the fridge switched on.
I use a special power cable to the AVR. This has some very physical reason and gives me peace of mind. It draws the highest current in the system and thus will have the strongest magnetic field. I use a shielded LAP Oelflex cable with low price "made in Germany" industry quality plugs. The shield is only connected to the wall side. Because I can't run all wires separately behind the AVR, this may prevent the AC field of the AVR power entering other wires running in close proximity. Is is audible? Not for me. Anyway, it costs not more than a "regular" AC power cable, maybe 1€ more per meter. The complete 1m cable comes at the cost of about 9€ and less than 15 minutes of my time. I promise it will sound just as good as any 20.000$ high end power cable.
If not I will buy you a beer to wash your ears.
Hey, it is hand made in Germany, you can't beat that, not even with stink'n Amazon China cable!
This is how it looks:
Any power conditioner is an additional resistance for the mains voltage to the transformer or SPS of any audio gear.I would recommend the same Lapp cables from the Robust series. TPE/PP is used as a dielectric instead of PVC. Costs another €0.5-1.00 more per meter. The only time that i needed a power conditioner was when I had big voltage swings on the AC in my (old) house. That was because the grid in that corner of the village was too light and a company a few hundred meters from my house (metalworking) used a lot of power that the grid hardly could deliver. When the Electricity company upgraded their distribution cabin for that corner, it was solved. I used a online UPS (that always feed trough the battery) to solve that issue. It costed me a few hundreds.
So if you can really hear anything, it will be reduced power of your amp or whatever you use it for.
I use quite cheap power distributors with some overvoltage protection capability in my systems. Maybe it helps if something bad happens on the AC line.
My main system has it's own power cable going to it's fuse in the house installation. That prevents spikes from motors, refridegerators and the like to dirctly enter the audio. It cured some glitch in the TV when the fridge switched on.
I use a special power cable to the AVR. This has some very physical reason and gives me peace of mind. It draws the highest current in the system and thus will have the strongest magnetic field. I use a shielded LAP Oelflex cable with low price "made in Germany" industry quality plugs. The shield is only connected to the wall side. Because I can't run all wires separately behind the AVR, this may prevent the AC field of the AVR power entering other wires running in close proximity. Is is audible? Not for me. Anyway, it costs not more than a "regular" AC power cable, maybe 1€ more per meter. The complete 1m cable comes at the cost of about 9€ and less than 15 minutes of my time. I promise it will sound just as good as any 20.000$ high end power cable.
If not I will buy you a beer to wash your ears.
Hey, it is hand made in Germany, you can't beat that, not even with stink'n Amazon China cable!
This is how it looks:
View attachment
Grounding issues with a house can also cause problems, but not only on your soundsystem. It's a very dangerous electric situation, that should be resolved at the core problem, not with a power conditioner. You need to redo the ground, often put a new grounding pin into the ground because the old rusted away...).
And some old or esotheric gear can have a psu without EMI/RFI shield, that can cause problems also. But that is fixed by making a power cable with that ciruit connected before your device (short before) in a metal box. There are good boards for this for sale, or closed modules for 10 to 100€ (depending on the power needed)
(TE 1--8)
The circuit is fairly simple and standard known.
The components of it are special, they need to be safety rated class x (for C1 and C2) and class Y (for C3 and C4). The ground G is the ground of your AC plug in this schematic.
In normal conditons, this is the only filtering you need, and almost all modern electronic devices should have his in their PSU, between the plug and fuse and the transformer (for a linear psu) or the SMPS.
My main system has it's own power cable going to it's fuse in the house installation. That prevents spikes from motors, refridegerators and the like to dirctly enter the audio. It cured some glitch in the TV when the fridge switched on.Going to burst some audiophile bubbles here... everything 'nasty' on the mains before and after the fuse box will still be present on the connected phase.
So when a fusebox uses 3 phases and your audio system is not connected to a single phase only (so nothing else in the house) used for that specific outlet 'unwanted crap' will still be present on that group.
Also the neutral will still have spikes on it from the other groups and thus still be present on the 'audio group', be it attenuated a bit.
Power quality is not 'ideal' in the fusebox which is what most 'dedicated audio group' proponents seem to rely on.
A dedicated group for audio should (ideally) be on its own (not shared) phase with an EMC filter close to the fusebox and the wires from there should not run parallel to other groups.
Furthermore all devices with SMPS in it will emit 'garbage' onto that mains line and the single ground wire to the fuse box is VERY high impedance for HF anyway. SMPS are HF devices. Sure... they should all have low emissions but not all do and when more of them are plugged into the same outlet you might not have to be surprised the amount of RF garbage exceeds that of the requirements.
In other words.... dedicated mains groups are 'polluted' as well. One should not believe that up to the fuse box mains is clean and that mains is low impedance for all frequencies on the web.
No cable can do anything about that. Filtering can improve things a bit at the expense of short circuit current capabilities being somewhat lower but should exceed that of mains fuses by several factors. When they would not fuses would be rendered useless and never blow.
Immunity should be handled in the audio equipment. This rarely is done in the correct way as HF immunity and safety guidelines aren't the same. Audio equipment should pass safety regulations which will ensure RF immunity. For this reason some people are plagued with ground loops, weird noises that should not be there etc.
The dedicated audio group is an illusion from an EMI/RFI standpoint which, alongside with leakage currents are the main culprits for audio nasties.
Power regenerators can actually improve the mains 'impedance' and lower EMC/RF in the system but is more limited in max. output current at mains frequencies and a a few octaves above that. Mostly due to RF filtering in it and a feedback in the generator path that keeps the output voltage more constant than that of the mains. Certainly when one lives a bit further away from the HV mains transformer one's (and other homes) are connected to.
Also it is good to know that 'peaks' in music that draw a lot of power from power amps is NOT directly drawn from the mains but this comes from the reservoir capacitors inside said amp(s) instead. The replenishing of the drawn power happens in short 'bursts' from the peaks on the mains. Those current peaks are much higher than one would expect from the drawn power due to the actual 'on-time' for charging which is just a small percentage of the time so those (narrow) peaks far exceed that of the current ratings in the fuse boxes. It is the reason why, when looking at the waveform of mains, the peaks are 'flattened' in a certain way because only near the peaks (positive as well as negative) the load is the highest.
They will also exceed that of power regenerators so the limit of those regenerators is reached quicker than via mains directly.
To illustrate this a bit below the current draw on the secondary side of a mains transformer:
Above trace is the actual measured DC voltage on the reservoir caps with a constant current draw of about 3A (70W)
The bottom trace is the current draw in the secondary side of the transformer. The winding ratio is about 1:10 for this transformer so current peaks (for an ideal transformer without losses) would be 2A (230V). When one would put a 70W ohmic load on 230V one gets 0.3Arms.
Note that, aside from a little filtering above several kHz, the current on the primary side of the transformer (so mains) has the same shape but of course is smaller in amplitude dictated by the winding ratio. Great write up solderdude, but maybe not that practical.
Referring to my advice about a singe mains wire to the audio system, I wanted to keep it simple and give a hint how to improve something without any expensive installation or hardware. I
I have a usual 230V 50Hz 3-phase system, that only serves my flat in my house, coming from the basement's primary distribution box.
The audio fuse is on the phase with the least suspicious consumers and serves only a few lamps. Fridge and kitchen stove are on the other lines.
If you have not build your house by your self, you can not be sure how the wall outlets are inter connected to the fuse box. You may have an outlet that is hanging on a string that has various disruptions, in every wall outlet. Any of these connections has some resistance. Modern, spring loaded contacts may work better, but the usual screw type is not 100% perfect with copper over time, loosing pressure. You should know that.
By using one dedicated, separate cable to the stereo, you can be sure to have no interruption. If you never experienced the problems daisy chained wall outlets can give you, you are not working in the field. Just changing the wall outlet often cures most mysterious problems with smart TV and audio.
A quick test is to hook it up with an extension cord. If that helps, a separation of power lines will make sense.
Of course this is no HF clean up, but any audio gear you connect has some level of tolerance to anything on the AC line. If you push the noise under that threshold, you are fine. In my last case it was a Samsung flat screen that had a short blackout any time the Samsung fridge started it's inverter compressor or a certain lamp was switched on. Sure I could have bought a $ mains cleaner, but already spent that money on something else. So a 12 meter run mains cable, a 16A fuse and a 3-way wall outlet was all I used. About 40€.
In most cases it is not some SMPS making problems while running, but only the on/off that causes it. Even the most simple transformer/ rectifier/ capacitor power supply produces noise and returns it into the mains line. So your explanations are interesting, but not really helpful. We can not get around these ugly power supplies, not even with audio, be them SMPS or transformers. You find SMPS even in high end gear today, Blue-ray players, amps etc.
By the way, every fuse is some kind of mains filter, only a small one but it counts...
A Power Cable Reality Check - Real HD-Audio
I know, I know. Talking about cables is a sure fire way to start a protracted — and unruly — discussion among audiophiles. The subjectivists write flowery prosaic descriptions while those of use who prefer to trust facts and science report the science and move on. That regular posts about cables continue to appear on various Facebook audiophile group pages shows just how unsettled the topic remains among the uninformed. Yet here I am writing another blog on cables — power cables — to be exact. Is there really anything left to be said?
If you want to learn more, please visit our website.
The catalyst in this instance is a recent review I read over at Positive Feedback, a site that features the motto “A Creative Forum for the Audio Arts” — creativity being the key word in that phrase. My reaction to many of the articles/reviews I’ve found on this site confirms their tilt towards the creative with a total disregard for the facts. But it was the review of the Cardas Audio Clear Beyond Power XL cable that eclipsed anything I’ve read for quiet a while. And guess who authored the review? The same gentleman that booted me from the Los Angeles and Orange County Audio Society last year because I dared challenge his unwavering support for the myth of power cables with documentary proof during a meeting here in SoCal! Click here if you would like to read that very popular post. More about his ridiculous review in a moment…
A few days ago I had to remove my Oppo BDP-203 from the rack and I happened to notice that it had a couple of screws bouncing around inside. As a former electronics technician and builder of more than my share of HeathKit products (receivers, guitar and amplifier, test equipment etc.), I’ve always enjoyed peeking inside audio gear. I’ve done a few mods on another Oppo player and a power amplifier in the past, so simply removing a few screws would be a piece of cake. However, inspired as I was from reading Bob Levi’s effusive prose in the PF review (“A liquid elegance and fleshy musical beauty emerged from a previous coolness and thinness.”), I decided to take a look — and some photographs — at the cabling inside the IEC power connector on the rear panel of the Oppo. See below:
I’ve been through this exercise before but let me restate the facts once again. The power reaching your duplex outlets comes through your home wiring through 12 or 14 gauge copper Romex wire depending on the amperage required (usually 20 or 15 amps) and costs about $.22 per foot. And inside your equipment is more 12 or 14 gauge stranded wire — generic wire that probably costs about the same. Designers of expensive IEC power cords would like you to believe that the 6 foot piece of cable they sell you which may contain “hundreds of the purest copper strands, each and every strand is coated with single poly nylon and only touch each other electrically at the final connection point” is going to magically transform the analog — or digital — signals passing between your components. For someone to claim that power cords “often make extraordinary differences” in the fidelity of your system is like saying that delivering that cord in a velvet bag inside of custom crafted box with dovetail joints has an impact on the sound! It’s just crazy! And anyone that would write such a thing and any website that would publish it should have their “bona fides” revoked. I know I wouldn’t trust anyone that would write something so ridiculous — and easy to prove incorrect.
That’s what I did with a very expensive power cord that a gentleman sent me some years ago. I used the regular IEC power cord recommended by my friends at Benchmark with their DAC 2 HGC and then swapped it out for the $ cord, which did come in a velvet bag inside a wooden box. I captured the analog output when using both cables and did a null comparison. To the utter amazement of the vendor in Atlanta, they both produced exactly the same output. Now some high-end audio manufacturers would have you believe that if two signals are identical that they could produce different sonic signatures — but that’s also utter nonsense!
I guess if you’ve got an extra $ dollars that’s burning whole in your pocket then throwing it away on a single 6-foot power cord is up to you. But if improving the fidelity of your system is among your priorities, then save your money and ignore the recommendations of people like Bob H. Levi and websites like Positive Feedback.
Feel free to read the review yourself. Every paragraph contains prime examples of why audiophile “experts” are not always the best sources of information and why audiophiles as reviewers is also not a good idea. Here’s a few gems from the review:
“Top-tier power cords are the best way to tweak a state-of-the-art system for maximum realism and definition. After tube rolling, cable selection and matching, suspension tuning, final equipment selections, speaker adjustments, and room acoustics, you may not quite have that timbral naturalness and background blackness that brings the system to life. For that final adjustment, try different power cords to bring out those important nuances”.
It’s actually hard to read paragraphs like the above without laughing out loud — yet many audiophiles accept these fantasies as facts.
“The Cardas Audio Clear Beyond Power XL in combination with the V12 Amplifier yielded one of those unforgettable, you-have-got-to-be-kidding-me moments an audiophile never forgets! The XL was easily 25% more detailed, produced a blacker background, was smoother than my already smooth reference, and captured timbral realism beyond my ability to describe in English. Like the fictional Red Violin, maybe George has captured DNA and infused it into this power cord such that it reveals not just a great recording, but a great performance just a few feet in front of you. I had to remind myself, this was just a power cord change, not an additional super widget component. The resulting system improvement in realism and mellifluousness with just one Cardas Audio Clear Beyond Power XL was fantastic and unassailable”.
zhuhaicable Product Page
One final anecdote before I post this blog. Before I was kicked out of the LA & OC Audiophile Society (for telling the truth about cables!), I attended one of their regular monthly events. Bob was always very kind to allow me to sell my book (Music and Audio: A User Guide To Better Sound) during meetings. He even gave it a very positive review but I’m guessing he didn’t read the chapter on cables. Anyway, a local vendor was doing an A|B comparison. He was elevating the hard drive attached to his laptop with an isolation pad ($250) between playing back the same digital music selection. He went back and forth a couple of times to make sure everyone could hear the difference (there was none!). I was sitting close to Bob along one side of the ballroom and heard him announce to a couple other members of the society what a huge improvement he experienced with the isolation pad in place. Only he made that pronouncement when the pad was removed NOT in place — he got it exactly reversed.
My father once taught me that integrity is something that is very difficult to establish — but very easy to lose. How much integrity is present in audiophile reviews? From my perspective — not very much.
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My younger brother is in need of some help. This isn’t the place or platform to relate the details of his current situation but I know some of you might consider making a contribution to the GoFundMe campaign I started for him once you read the narrative I authored. In fact, since I posted this a week ago, many readers have given generously…thank you!
I wouldn’t make this appeal if I didn’t feel his circumstance was compelling and the person worthy. If you want to read more, please click the link below and consider making a contribution.
To thank anyone that makes a donation of $100 or more, I will send a signed copy of my “Music and Audio: A User Guide to Better Sound” (with Blu-ray Demo disc) AND a FREE copy of the latest AIX Records sampler— a $25 value. If you contribute $50 – $100, I’ll send the eBook, downloadable files, and the AIX sampler. Finally, for a donation of $25 – $50, you’ll receive the eBook and demo files.
I will cover all shipping expenses for domestic orders. International shipping will be additional.
Click here to be taken to the GoFundMe page.
Please do not share this link. Thanks for your consideration. And thanks to those that have generously contributed to the GoFundMe campaign!
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